tom rust wrote:I don't know how to post the pixs here ...
I spoke with Rich Hass of USHPA.
One of our options is to have their ratings pulled.
bobk wrote:Even though I still fly both wings...
With all respect to Rick, I think the benefits of him being able to land in some small corner of Funston are far outshadowed by the threat to hang gliding at that site if paragliding is allowed to gain any footholds at all. Once that camel's nose is under the tent, there goes the tent.
Rick, if you want to create some good will for your cause...
That's what we got for trying to "play nice" with the PG crowd.
In all of his time as President and Secretary of USHPA (both Executive Committee positions) he hasn't lifted a finger to actually change the balance on that Council. I publicly predict that he will take no action in this case. Let's watch and see what happens.
spork wrote:bobk wrote:Even though I still fly both wings...
I thought you told me on the phone yesterday that you haven't flown a paraglider in years.
spork wrote:Bob wrote:Once that camel's nose is under the tent, there goes the tent.
I strongly disagree. The HG/PG community can easily come to an agreement that will not result in PG's flying the Funston ridge, or a subset of HG pilots can continue to act aggressively toward PG's both in the air and on the ground. That option results in either a site closure or a biwingual site.
spork wrote:Bob wrote:Rick, if you want to create some good will for your cause...
I have been attacked, threatened, and lied about. I'm not in the good will business at the moment.
spork wrote:Bob wrote:That's what we got for trying to "play nice" with the PG crowd.
Good point. Keep playing rough. Let's see where it gets us.
spork wrote:Bob wrote:in all of his time as President and Secretary of USHPA (both Executive Committee positions) he hasn't lifted a finger to actually change the balance on that Council. I publicly predict that he will take no action in this case. Let's watch and see what happens.
If you're talking about the case of paragliders flying in unregulated airspace, I predict you're right. USHPA does not govern that airspace.
bobk wrote: So you are wrong to quote me as having said that I haven't flown a paraglider in years.
As I mentioned on the phone, I do not support aggressive behavior in the air (or on the ground). However, it is unrealistic of you to expect that once you get the ability to land at Funston, that someone else won't then want to launch and someone else won't then want to fly the ridge. You seem like a pretty smart fellow, and I know that you have to see that's what will happen. There goes the tent, and Funston becomes another Torrey Pines.
Review Britian's history with the Third Reich (especially the role of Neville Chamberlain). It's an unfortunate aspect of human nature that sometimes you make progress with the carrot, and sometimes you make progress with the stick.
I'm talking about paragliders violating an understanding with the Fellow Feathers and the GGNRA that paragliders will not fly the ridge.
spork wrote:It seems I misunderstood a statement you made to me on the phone.
spork wrote:I think having an actual agreement with the PG community is clearly a better way to go - for everyone.
Rich Hass (copy to others),
I'm writing to report the tandem incident that I experienced today (February 18th, 2012) at the Torrey Pines Gliderport.
The wind was relatively strong (12 to 15mph) crossing from the South (maybe 220 degrees on a 270 degree facing cliff).
I had launched my paraglider around 3:30pm and had a short flight (less than about 1/2 hour). During the mid portion of the flight, I was flying northbound along the "north face" (steepest and most consistent portion of the site) with the ridge to my right. Brad Geary was flying as a tandem "instructor" with a passenger. There were no other gliders in the area. As I was flying northbound, Brad Geary began to overtake me to my left (away from the cliff). This is a violation of the ridge rules which are in place at Torrey Pines. The ridge rules dictate that an overtaking glider should pass on the ridge side so that the pilot being overtaken is not "pinched" into the cliff. Brad Geary passed so close that his right wingtip was nearly touching my own left wingtip - pinning me against the ridge with little room for error. As soon as I saw him pinning me against the ridge, I realized that his intention was to "wake" me with his heavier glider. Given the circumstances (and my proximity to the ridge), I feared that the wake from his heavier glider so close might cause a collapse or similar loss of control potentially sending me into the cliff. So I called out very loudly for Brad to turn away because he was endangering all of us (myself, himself, and his tandem passenger). I called out several times. Brad could clearly hear my calls, but he persisted for a short time creeping closer and closer to my glider. I continued to warn him of the dangers, and he eventually turned out away from the ridge returning to the south where he landed with his passenger a short time later. I believe it was the presence of his passenger (who probably didn't appreciate being put in obvious danger) that caused Brad to break off his game of "chicken" trying to pin me against the cliff.
This is not the first time that Brad Geary has played "chicken" with other pilots at the Torrey Pines Gliderport. I have seen him do a similar thing to David Beardslee when Dave was flying a tandem flight. In that case, Brad Geary flew directly at Dave forcing him out of the lift band resulting in a beach landing. These are not "mistakes". These are willful acts of endangering the lives of pilots and passengers. These acts are not in keeping with the responsibility of a tandem pilot or a USHPA instructor.
Additionally, as you may recall, Brad Geary was at the center of another incident 2 years ago (February 7th, 2010). Brad's student (who was flying at Torrey WITHOUT a USHPA membership and WITHOUT any rating) had crashed into the hang glider setup area. Fortunately, no one was hurt. I was a Regional Director at that time, and I gave the student a short time to calm down before I approached and asked to speak to his instructor. As soon as I asked the question, Brad Geary inserted himself and told the student to NOT tell a Regional Director who his instructor was. It turns out that Brad himself was the instructor, and the student was Brad's younger brother. I wrote to Dave Broyles and the EC about the incident (see attachment below), but I did not take further action at that time. However, Brad Geary's subsequent disregard for the safety of himself and others is now forming a pattern.
I therefore request that USHPA investigate these incidents and take the appropriate action. Furthermore, I am giving notice that I have warned USHPA about the willful and dangerous actions of Brad Geary, and I believe it is USHPA's responsibility to take appropriate action at this time. Please keep me apprised of your actions in this matter.
Sincerely,
Bob Kuczewski
The paraglider pilots know full well that the Funston space from the south bowl northward is off limits.
A paraglider flies much slower than a hang glider...
When a paraglider enters the Funston area airspace he effectively prevents hang gliders from flying...
Wanting to fly Funston by a paraglider pilot is just plain greed.
I spoke yesterday with Rich Hass, President of USHPA, who only flies paragliders. He also deplores this flagrant violation and one of the options discussed at his suggestion was pulling the ratings of the offending pilots.
We will identify the offending pilots and if they don't stop, we will petition USHPA to have their ratings pulled. And if they continue to try to fly Funston we will file complaints with the police.
spork wrote:I spoke to Rich 30 seconds ago. I can tell you that Tom has grossly mischaracterized his position.
spork wrote:It's my understanding that Torrey is not a USHPA site. Feel free to correct me if I got that wrong.
spork wrote:It's also my understanding that Funston is one of the very few sites that have effectively been grandfathered in as a non-biwingual site.
spork wrote:If the site becomes biwingual it will be a result of Tom's escalation.
bobk wrote: As Tom has said, there is plenty of biwingual territory on that ridge for paragliders to enjoy. Why should they need to push hang gliding out of that last small section?
spork wrote:bobk wrote: As Tom has said, there is plenty of biwingual territory on that ridge for paragliders to enjoy. Why should they need to push hang gliding out of that last small section?
There's no point in addressing this strawman argument since no one has ever proposed any such thing.
bobk wrote:I guarantee they will. It all starts with the camel's nose ... getting under the tent.
bobk wrote:I think you're wrong, but it depends on what you mean by a "USHPA site"...
The president of USHPA says it's not a USHPA site.
bobk wrote:Which do you think the Funston club should rely on when deciding what to do to protect hang gliding at Funston?
spork wrote:They have two easy choices...
1) They can shut the fuck up and let it go. Them choosing to escalate it won't end well.
spork wrote:2) They can act like civilized humans and come to a reasonable arrangement with the rest of the flying community. Trying to maintain soveriegnty through threats and intimidation hasn't proven the best approach in history either.
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