Flyfunston

by **Mark Lilledahl** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:20 pm

There have been 880 logons on this post .That means there are probably a few hundred viewers.This is the place where the TRUTH comes out.This many viewers will figure it out.

Marginal Mark

by **bobk** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:05 am

Dan Brown wrote:Urs’ creditability with local pilots would further tumble if Mark could show that at the last USHPA Director meeting, Urs voted to end local control at Funston and at other hang gliding sites, to impose a gag rule on pilots, to force Fellow Feathers to allow non-hang gliding pilots to vote in its meetings and to prohibit hang gliding only sites.

That's why they don't publish how Directors vote. They can pass all kinds of garbage when no one is accountable.

In the fall of 2009 and spring of 2010 I proposed the "Accountability Amendment" which would require a record of how Directors vote on the Board when any Director requested it. Dave Wills refused to allow discussion of that amendment in the Organization and Bylaws Committee. Lisa Tate refused to allow it in the General Session. Urs didn't make a peep to support that amendment in either case. Shortly afterward, the USHPA Board did pass changes designed to keep me off the Board. I wonder why?

Mark's right. With 880 views of this topic, the TRUTH will come out. Thanks Fellow Feathers.

by **bobk** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:28 pm

Urs wrote (March 24th, 2011 at 6:45 pm):

If you like, I can give this group a rundown of why you were removed as an RD, from the hanggliding.org, ozreport forum and from your own hang gliding club the Torrey Hawks.

That same day - less than an hour later (7:24 pm) - Bob replied:

Yes. I would like that. Please give us a rundown Urs.

Let it be known to all that Urs has not responded to that challenge because he knows his statements are full of lies and half-truths that he could not defend in a fair discussion.

by **thermal pirate** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:07 am

LET IT BE KNOWN TO ALL THAT BOB K IS JUST AS BAD. HE ABUSES THIS BOARD TO PROMOTE HIS OWN AGENDA.

by **bobk** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:08 am

thermal pirate,

I am using the board to communicate what I know about a USHPA Regional Director to members of this club who will be asked to vote for that Director. In particular, I am pointing out the inaccuracy of his statements on this forum and I am asking him to justify those statements. I don't wish to create a civil war here, but these issues certainly concern some members of the club. If they don't concern you, then there are other topics for you to read.

I am always amazed by people who feel that a forum should only contain what they are interested in. Different people have different interests, and a forum provides a venue where all people can choose to read what they want. The desire to eliminate topics that don't interest a particular subset of participants is entirely inconsistent with the format of a multiple-topic forum.

thermal pirate, please think about the ramifications of deciding which topics are allowed and which are prohibited.

Thanks.

by **bobk** » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:10 am

Mark Lilledahl wrote:There have been 880 logons on this post .That means there are probably a few hundred viewers.This is the place where the TRUTH comes out.This many viewers will figure it out.

That's what someone is afraid of Mark. For the record, I've been contacted by people who would like to see me retract some of my challenges to Urs ... or I might possibly be removed from this forum. I do not retract them. But I do recognize that Urs isn't likely to answer those challenges either (shame on Urs).

So for that reason, I'd like to get past the Urs discussion and bring this topic back to where it started. Here's Dan's first post:

Dan Brown wrote:The recent replacement of our waiver by USHPA’s waiver and the manner in which it was done are not cause for celebration. The waiver was our waiver. We negotiated it and had a voice in its terms and conditions. Now it has been eliminated by USHPA’s attorney and a USHPA Director negotiating directly with our landlord. For 40 years we had kept third parties out of our relationship with our landlord.

To maintain our independence we need to distance ourselves from USHPA; not become more dependent upon it. USHPA is an organization increasingly devoted to a sport that is not ours, disliked by many of its members, with a long history of financial irregularities and run by Directors who voted to impose a gag rule, end the independence of local clubs and force Fellow Feathers to allow non-hang gliding pilots to vote in our elections.

Instead of USHPA negotiating to end our waiver, we should be negotiating to end our dependence upon USHPA. The only purpose USHPA serves is to sell us, reportedly at a profit, insurance. Our landlord requires liability insurance. We should try to convince it that insurance is unnecessary. Recreational use immunity statutes and California Supreme Court decisions provide protection.

I don’t question Steve’s good intentions in eliminating our waiver but it is hard to balance the diminishment of local control with the claimed saving of a few dollars. The waiver simply was part of the Funston rule package printed on the back of the sticker application.

Even if our landlord continues to require insurance, there is hope that a new organization may end our dependence upon USHPA. A former USHPA Director has established a national HANG GLIDING organization, http://www.ushawks.org/ . If it obtains insurance, USHPA will have competition and we no longer will forced to join it to fly at Funston.

Dan didn't mention Urs in his post. Instead, Dan is talking about USHPA and its relationship with its chapters. He's talking about an organization that has grown increasingly insensitive to the needs of its members. This is the classic symptom of a monopoly - they grow insensitive to the needs of their customers. There are only two solutions: government intervention to fix the monopoly (breakup of "Ma Bell" for example) or meaningful competition. I am advocating for the second choice. I am advocating for the creation of an alternative national organization that might offer better pricing, fairer policies, and better representation for its members. For those familiar with SCUBA diving, I'm offering the same choices that divers have long had between NAUI and PADI (and others). Having multiple national SCUBA organizations certainly hasn't hurt that sport!!

So there is no real down side to your club joining the US Hawks. It will make a statement to USHPA that you recognize there might be alternatives on the horizon. It's a reminder that USHPA should value and serve your chapter ... because you might actually have a choice some day. That's the smart road for your club and our sport.

Please join us on US Hawks. There's no cost, and our goal is to represent hang gliding fairly for everyone.

Bob Kuczewski
858-204-7499 (please call any time)

Flyfunston

USHPA and Funston

Re: USHPA and Funston

Re: USHPA and Funston

Re: USHPA and Funston

Re: USHPA and Funston

Re: USHPA and Funston

Re: USHPA and Funston

Who is online